Heinlein and Prepping

Sam Cree wrote:

I think I'd like to check out wind generators. They ought to work well in winter, when it tends to be breezy and there's less sun.

I saw (well perhaps saw half of) a cable-channel program about converting a trolling motor, (that is, a DC electric motor for propelling a boat using battery power), into a wind-generator.

Essentially, if you replace the prop with a larger surface wind prop, and turn the DC motor upside-down, then the only other thing you have to do is figure out how to keep it faced into the wind.

Seems like a cheap way to check out the possibilities. Such motors should be easy to come across in any region with some lakes.

One advantage of this technique is that multiple units could be set up, and then merely tipped-up into the wind when the time is right.

NicknamedBob wrote:

Sam Cree wrote:

I think I'd like to check out wind generators. They ought to work well in winter, when it tends to be breezy and there's less sun.

I saw (well perhaps saw half of) a cable-channel program about converting a trolling motor, (that is, a DC electric motor for propelling a boat using battery power), into a wind-generator.

Essentially, if you replace the prop with a larger surface wind prop, and turn the DC motor upside-down, then the only other thing you have to do is figure out how to keep it faced into the wind.

Seems like a cheap way to check out the possibilities. Such motors should be easy to come across in any region with some lakes.

One advantage of this technique is that multiple units could be set up, and then merely tipped-up into the wind when the time is right.

Sewing machine motors have a very high output with a smaller input than most other motors. I don't know much about electricity but I know you want a motor like that.

Now that you guys mention boats, they make wind generators ready made for sailboats...'course, I bet they are not cheap. I suppose they charge batteries, which are then used for 12v DC power.

Sam Cree wrote:

Now that you guys mention boats, they make wind generators ready made for sailboats...'course, I bet they are not cheap. I suppose they charge batteries, which are then used for 12v DC power.

Listings suggest a dollar a watt, in the 400 to 600 watt range. Sailboat fora give reviews. Most seemed concerned with noise.

If I was going to home-build a windmill, it would probably be a vertical-axis type, so no need for directional aiming. It would use the helical type blades to minimize noise. I'd have it turn an automotive alternator at the base (belt-driven), and use 12-V automotive stuff (battery, lighting, other devices) for the rest of the system - all cheap and available from any car-parts store. Having the alternator at the bottom of the rig means easy maintenance - the only thing at the top of the mast is a bearing.

A vertical-axis turbine with a 45-degree gearbox at the base can power an Archimedes-screw type water-lift pump pretty easily as well (pick suitable gear ratio).

Just ideas. I'm not a prepper, beyond the minimal level of having some "canned goods" and bottled water.

Inspector_Clouseau wrote:

If I was going to home-build a windmill, it would probably be a vertical-axis type, so no need for directional aiming. It would use the helical type blades to minimize noise. I'd have it turn an automotive alternator at the base (belt-driven), and use 12-V automotive stuff (battery, lighting, other devices) for the rest of the system - all cheap and available from any car-parts store. Having the alternator at the bottom of the rig means easy maintenance - the only thing at the top of the mast is a bearing.

A vertical-axis turbine with a 45-degree gearbox at the base can power an Archimedes-screw type water-lift pump pretty easily as well (pick suitable gear ratio).

Just ideas. I'm not a prepper, beyond the minimal level of having some "canned goods" and bottled water.

I like the vertical axis concept, for reasons you've described, as well as having a degree of home-engineering capability. Scrounged parts and homemade rigs would make up for a lack of efficiency.

Also, in regard to your design, it would be easy to have multiple alternators ready to go into action, with only the centrifugal clutch spring differing in tension.

As the wind mounted, more alternators could come on line, so that a brisk wind could be very beneficial. This arrangement also allows you to swap units in and out by simply changing the clutch spring for which unit operates first.

Having everything else simply a duplication of the first system would mean that a failure would be repairable easily and quickly.

Inspector_Clouseau wrote:

If I was going to home-build a windmill, it would probably be a vertical-axis type, so no need for directional aiming. It would use the helical type blades to minimize noise. I'd have it turn an automotive alternator at the base (belt-driven), and use 12-V automotive stuff (battery, lighting, other devices) for the rest of the system - all cheap and available from any car-parts store. Having the alternator at the bottom of the rig means easy maintenance - the only thing at the top of the mast is a bearing.

A vertical-axis turbine with a 45-degree gearbox at the base can power an Archimedes-screw type water-lift pump pretty easily as well (pick suitable gear ratio).

Just ideas. I'm not a prepper, beyond the minimal level of having some "canned goods" and bottled water.

Rather than going with automotive batteries, I'd suggest marine deep cycle batteries.

They're designed for repeated discharge and charging, albeit more expensive.

Next, you're going to need to bank them in parallel to increase runtime and capacity.

A battery bank requires the batteries be of the same type/size/capacity to be efficient. Fully charged batteries should be within 2/10 volt at max charge for a 12 volt battery and output amperage on each individual battery of maybe 5 amps tested against the same load.

There are some who might argue that my specs are too rigid, but years of experience tells me otherwise.

You might also consider adding a power inverter to your design.

It allows you to convert 12VDC to 110AC (or more accurately approx 115AC) for those items requiring 110 to function as a backup to your generating capacity.

The big thing you have to remember is to compute start amps for your devices into your design.

3000 watt inverter will run a freezer and a few lights will cost about $250...of course, bigger output, bigger bucks. That cost is for modified sine wave output and not as clean an output as pure sine wave which is the preferred power for pure off grid.

I have an inverter on my truck big enough to run an air compressor at a remote site and I have to say I'd be lost without it.

Vertical axis sounds good.

Sam Cree wrote:

Vertical axis sounds good.

With flexible blades, one could configure the turbine by having a set rotation plane at the top of the pole, and an adjustable one toward the bottom. By raising the lower hub, you could bow the blades out to catch the wind.

Then by lowering the hub, you could prep the device for weathering a storm. Essentially furling the blades close to the axis of rotation, and then securing them with appropriate bungees or whatever.

Probably a good idea to keep the lowest part of the rotating blade well above head-level, though.

I was thinking more like 60 feet.

Sam Cree wrote:

I was thinking more like 60 feet.

You'll still need guy supports. Just keep them above the rotation, and well splayed-out. Tapping the energy off with multiple alternators feeding multiple battery banks seems like a way to keep the technology affordable.

There's also the possibility of using the energy directly, although I'm hard-pressed to think of a good example of how to do that. In the early days, the wind pumped water into an elevated storage facility. With that, even having no wind for several days would not prevent normal water usage.

Bob, I'm starting to think seriously about all this. It's interesting, at the very least.

I'm going to have to research it out, though I'm not sure where to start looking.

I concur about storing the energy, though I'm pretty sure battery banks cost like hell...and from what I know about batteries, the lifespan is only a few years.

Once you store water, of course, you can move it out of the tank in various ways through gravity, or hand pumps, etc.

Sam Cree wrote:

Bob, I'm starting to think seriously about all this. It's interesting, at the very least.

I'm going to have to research it out, though I'm not sure where to start looking.

I concur about storing the energy, though I'm pretty sure battery banks cost like hell...and from what I know about batteries, the lifespan is only a few years.

Once you store water, of course, you can move it out of the tank in various ways through gravity, or hand pumps, etc.

This looks like an interesting web site; it covers the needed mechanisms and questions you may have:

Deep well mechanical pump

They have a few misspelled words, which is of mild concern, but the equipment looks properly designed. The prices seem a little high, but that could be merely my sticker-shock, having not priced it recently. And stainless steel is normally more expensive anyway.

This configuration should allow wind power to pump your water, and still provide back-up hand-powered operation. Not a bad deal.

Pricey or not, it might be something I could use as well. (In my well.)

I can light my house up, and I can keep it warm. But getting the water in is a different matter. Hmm.

I've got a spring on my property, so that's one problem solved, the water's already on the surface.

Sam Cree wrote:

I've got a spring on my property, so that's one problem solved, the water's already on the surface.

Oh, well in that case, you'll want a hydraulic ram.

Hydraulic Ram